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PADDY RYAN

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When your strength is done, just keep going on
Articles Posted: 27  Links Seeded: 46
Member Since: 3/2006  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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By their friends ye shall know them ...

Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:20 PM EDT
newsvine, friends, character, friend-list, paddy-ryan
By Paddy Ryan
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Aesop, in the fable of The Ass and His Purchase, taught us that a man is known by the company he keeps. Allow me to expand on that, presenting you with three possible motivations you might have when you're choosing friends. (Disclaimer: I've had some bitter experiences with false friends, but I'll try and not let that slip through into the text.)

Convenience

There are those who choose their friends by convenience. If it is convenient for them, you're gladly accepted. If you can help them in any way, they will be glad to embrace you, but if your actions (or inaction) start to cause any inconvenience to them, you start being put to one side.

To these people, it doesn't really matter what you believe, or what you practise. They seem to have no convictions (or, at least, no qualms about going against their convictions). You never really know what they believe, as they'll usually agree with you on anything. They are willing to condemn someone else if they think that will win favour with you (which makes you wonder what they say about you when you're not there!). They are the type of people who (as the Irish say) will pat you in the back in front of your face, but spit in your face behind your back.

They are the type of friend that I find inconvenient.

Convictions

Then there are those who choose their friends by their convictions. They manifest a very, very strong tribe mentality. If you agree with them on some basic, fundamental position, you're accepted. Your character (or lack thereof) doesn't matter — it's your beliefs that count.

I tend to respect more this type of people — up to a point. I respect their strong convictions, and their courage to make their convictions know (at least you know where they stand!). But I abhor their double standards. They are willing to condemn an opponent (with sadistic pleasure) for the smallest of faults, while defending a "brother" for greater sins. "Where's the glory in that?"

Character

Last, but certainly not least, are those who choose their friends by their character. They are themselves people of character, and they prefer an honest opponent to a cheating brother. These are the ones you can count on — the ones who are willing to go against the status quo in their community to defend an upright person (even if they share nothing with that person except their honesty).

It is obvious from the way I've structured this article that I try to follow this latter ideal. I have friends with whom I have practically nothing in common, except the knowledge that we will never allow anyone else to criticise each other for no reason. We have different convictions, but we respect each other.

What more could you want from a friend?

On Newsvine

My policy on Newsvine has been to accept every friend request received, but to later remove from my list those who show, by their conduct, that they have no character. Even though I'm a convinced Christian and Creationist (not of the North-American variety), I have atheists and evolutionists in my friend list. If we lived in the same town, we would probably meet in the rarest of occasions, as my path in life is so different from theirs. But I learn from them, and in the long run that is what counts.

So, thanks to all for allowing me to get this off my chest :-)

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someone

I can identify friends of mine who fit all three descriptions. I also see myself as the last type, but I assume that's how most people view themselves. I personally find that I can deal with the other types better once I identify their "type" and therefore can predict how they will respond. For example, I don't get as disappointed when a "convenience" friend bails on me because I know in advance that it's likely.

  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:40 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

For example, I don't get as disappointed when a "convenience" friend bails on me because I know in advance that it's likely

Yes, living and learning :-)

  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:26 PM EDT
Brad Leclerc

I don't have a lot of friends that aren't willing to fight for their own opinions and convictions...cause those people don't tend to understand why I would....but other then that I have a very assorted set of friends from all walks of life, keeps things interesting :)

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:45 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

I don't have a lot of friends that aren't willing to fight for their own opinions and conviction

Rukh, that's good. But what I think is more important: are your friends willing to fight for you, even if their opinions and convictions are different from yours? That's the type of friend that is rare, but worth their weight in gold!

  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:29 PM EDT
Brad Leclerc

Indeed, very rare, and great to have :)

  • 4 votes
#1.4 - Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:49 AM EDT
Reply
ArdithRestored

Paddy,

What a good, caring, and thought-provoking article.

A long time ago someone taught me about drawing circles. Draw a circle: in that circle is you. Now you add in your immediate family who you trust and vice-versa, and any friends that are so deep and true that well, if they called you in the middle of the night and said "help" you'd go right away, mortage the house if you had to in order to help them, and vice versa.

There usually aren't too many names in that circle with you. And that, my teacher said, is how it should be.

We have a society based on artificiality and I think the term "friend" gets tossed about a lot. In older days, there was an accepted difference between an acquaintance, a colleague, a friend, a dear friend, etc. But that seems to have blown away.

My friends cover the gamut of political thought, and a wide range of backgrounds, religions, and races. But they all have many of the same qualities in common. Which brings us back to the circles.

The idea is that you keep drawing circles. The next circle, outside the core of you--some even say that the first circle should contain you and you only, to remind you of many things--contains the people that you know deeply and trust, who will support you but aren't necessarily the ones you can call out at 3 a.m., no matter what. They might be there at 7 a.m. (grin!), but they'll be there.

And you keep drawing circles further out and adding names. When I did this exercise, it cleared my mind wonderfully. Immediately I could see that, as I'm pretty darned outgoing, I had assigned a higher level of "friend" to someone who really was a friendly colleague. I learned a lot from that.

The second part of the teaching is then to look at the names in your inner circle, and maybe two others. Then ask yourself--why them? The answers wind up teaching you about your own value system. And so on as you work the circles further out.

Among my friends--one I call my absolutely most favoritest far-right-wing Conservative Republican, more than 20 years now. Among my friends--the other side of the political spectrum. But they share the same intrinsic qualities and standards.

For me, genuine friendship includes many things, including values and standards. Among them: is this person positive? There are far too many negative people, those who like to drag others down via nitpicking, criticizing, or just plain arguing to hear their own voices. The people I call friends are those who have incredibly positive effects on the world and on the people around them.

I meant to recommend a book to you on the other thread by Dr. Norman Cousins, about his bout with serious heart disease and other health problems. The name will come back to me eventually.

And, I also like reading Jim Rohn--not because I'm in sales, but because he, like Dr. Cousins, has so many things right: good attitude, good values, high standards, associate with people who upllift and have similiar standards, and make sure that if you are with people who don't make you feel good, or in a place that isn't making you grow and feel good, then find the place and people that don't take away from your life, but add to it, just as you add to theirs.

That's a longish answer, but I think your article and question are so very worthy. And thank you for making me rethink this.

My circles are filled with love and positive, wonderful people. And that in itself is good medicine!

Best,
Ardith

  • 5 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:07 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Ardith, your comment is better than my article :-)

I really liked your circles - an interesting experiment to try sometime.

Cheers!

  • 5 votes
#2.1 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:41 PM EDT
Marilyn L

No need to compare, Paddy. Your article is thought provoking, and wow, Ardith just made a wonderful addition to it. Glad I stopped by!

  • 5 votes
#2.2 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:22 PM EDT
someone

My small group began study of a book called "Making Room for Life" last year which had a similar circle exercise. This exercise called for you to draw circles for relationship groups. Any person or group of people that you interact with gets a circle. If you most commonly interact with a person individually, they get there own circle. If it's usually as a group, the whole group goes in a single circle.

The idea is that each of those circles represent relationships which require effort to maintain. The author suggested that to make live more efficient you should attempt to merge or eliminate circles. I understand the point, but didn't buy in to it as a viable option. I can't imagine trying to decide which relationships I would eliminate, or how I would go about doing so.

Ironically, we were not able to finish the book due to a lack of time. Maybe it would have made more sense to me if we had finished it.

  • 4 votes
#2.3 - Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:13 AM EDT
ArdithDeleted
Paddy Ryan

Marylin, Someone and Ardith - thanks for all your comments.

I suggest that if you always act honestly, true to your convictions and beliefs, your circles of friendship will resolve themselves :-)

  • 5 votes
#2.5 - Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:28 PM EDT
Reply
Hekofawoman

Paddy, on choosing friends, I have to go with Character, always. While the others "happen", for me....character is the most consistant part of a person that I look for. As in my experience here on NV....I too accept all invites and reach out much...but I watch and see what happens....sometimes yes, there are those that are removed, sadly - but that is life. I care about all people in general, no matter their differences, but I have learned it's sometimes wise for me not to go to places I know I can't handle or make a difference no matter how I try. I have much energy, and will put forth much, but not if it's pointless. Civility is important to me also...the ability to be oneself, and to allow another that same respect matters. If the two can't be...then I must go where it is a part of another's over-all language. I try to relate to people, not compete with them..I try to look at them as humans, not property and I always love them, and sometimes at a distance. I see no point in pursuing a friendship where there simply is no apparent respect for the other person. In saying that..as long as I follow that belief, I usually have a pretty good/great experience with most. I am grateful for all the hardships I have had in my life now, as it is how I have learned, patience, understanding, empathy, and compassion for others...even if we can't always say it....I will feel it. Thanks for directing me here...and good to see you surface Paddy - enjoyed this very much. Hek:)

  • 6 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Apr 6, 2010 11:39 AM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Brilliant comment, Hek.

You're right -- character is important, and respect for differences. I am not attracted to "relativism", in any sense of the word, yet I'm not foolish enough to think that only those who agree with me are right (if that makes sense :-)

Cheers, my good friend.

  • 5 votes
#3.1 - Tue Apr 6, 2010 9:27 PM EDT
Hekofawoman

Paddy, I feel so honored by you, a veteran, for showing up on my little ole post...WOW...what a compliment that is for me. I have always prided myself on surrounding myself with the best...I am not, but I learn only from those I consider to be what it is I aspire to be more like...thank YOU. I feel really loved right now and I appreciate your comments to me...they validate all I feel and think and believe about people...thanks for being one of them.:) smiling now, Hek

  • 3 votes
#3.2 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 2:12 AM EDT
Reply
oldfogey

Yeh, most of my friends are characters. And I find it convenient to have friends when I need someone. I even have an absolute conviction that if Ardith returned I would welcome her with open arms. Paddy, so much has come and gone and still the world turns on and on. I tend to make friends of anyone who is an Earthling. Not even just human Earthlings. I have known some cats and dogs who I have befriended. And a few horses. Even my old Dairy Cow Izzy is remembered fondly.

  • 4 votes
Reply#4 - Tue Apr 6, 2010 11:53 AM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Jerry, you are certainly a character. I never know exactly what you mean in your comments, and it's exactly that habit of pretending you're not saying as much as you're hinting at which makes me like you :-)

I have tons of friends, yet I have few real friends.

Cheers, and thanks for being here :-)

  • 3 votes
#4.1 - Tue Apr 6, 2010 9:37 PM EDT
Hekofawoman

Paddy - Yes he is...and I love him for it.....I smile:)

oldfogey - you are but a charm:) Muah, Hek

  • 3 votes
#4.2 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 2:15 AM EDT
Paddy Ryan

The Old Fogey is one of a kind all right :-)

  • 2 votes
#4.3 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 9:39 PM EDT
Reply
ERich-356044

When it comes to friends, I guess I have never thought of it 'in the real world,' but character is pretty important in personal life, convenience for work(I like the people I work with, but we don't hang out on weekends etc.) and on the vine is a mixture of all.

I have conservative friends, liberal friends and accept all friendship requests. I haven't had to delete a friend. (yay!) With people being so partisan and so much division I think holding on to friends who believe the opposite of you is important. I have been focusing on what unites us is far greater than what divides us.

Thanks for this article. I like it!

E

  • 4 votes
Reply#5 - Tue Apr 6, 2010 12:04 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Erich, thanks for your comments.

I would differentiate between "real-world" friends and cyber-friends. I'm much more open in relation to the latter :-)

Cheers.

  • 4 votes
#5.1 - Tue Apr 6, 2010 9:40 PM EDT
Hekofawoman

Paddy, it's good to see this post active again...I looked at the date...and while it is really old..it is appropriate right now...so glad you brought it to my attention, kudos. It's wonderful. Hek:)

  • 3 votes
#5.2 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 2:20 AM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Heck, thanks for all your encouragement. This article is old, but its message is relevant :-)

in real life, we seem to have very little in common, But, in all sincerity, I'm glad you're on my friend list, and glad that you accept me on yours :-)

Cheers.

  • 4 votes
#5.3 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 10:42 AM EDT
Hekofawoman

It is absolutely "relevent" and timeless, glad you kept it up for us. Happy Birthday "young" man...I hope it is a wonderful Birthday month and year to follow:)

  • 4 votes
#5.4 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 2:30 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Thanks, and cheers.

  • 3 votes
#5.5 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 4:37 PM EDT
Reply
not over it

I have several categories of friends. My best friend is my husband, next is my mom. I do everything with my husband and can tell him everything, except complain about him. That's what my mom is for but she doesn't like to stay up late so that's why I have other friends.

Most of my friends are my husband's family. He has three brothers, their three wives and several close cousins. We all live in the same neighborhood. These are the people I spend most of my time with. I think they would most closely resemble the definition of convenient friends. We aren't extremely close. I would never tell them a dirty little secret and have learned the hard way not to discuss politics or religion, but I can call them anytime to pick up my kids from school.

My best friend (excluding hubby and mom) is the only person that I can talk about anything with including religion, politics, embarrassing stuff and he will pick up my kids from school. He's my friend for many reasons including his convictions and character but it doesn't hurt that he smokes and drinks the same brand of beer. Technically I stole him from my husband. They have been friends for life and I have only been friends with him for only 20 years. So, my husband wins him in the divorce. haha

The rest of the people I call friends are really just people that are fun enough to invite to parties, so my parties are more fun. No serious discussions, no daily, weekly or even monthly phone calls or emails. They are just fun to party with and come in handy in the event of an unexpected bar-room brawl.

My newsvine friends are, for the most part, complete strangers. I have agreed and disagreed with all of them on one occasion or another but mostly enjoy their contribution to the conversation. I do have one newsvine friend that I consider to be a real friend of mine even though I will most likely never meet him in person. I agree with him on most issues. From what I can tell I think he has a good character and convictions but mostly, he makes me laugh. He has even come in handy for great advice like how to win a bar-room brawl. Downside, he lives to far away to pick up my kids from school. Eh, nobody is perfect.

  • 4 votes
Reply#6 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 4:50 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Not Over It,

There's something inherently different about "cyber-friends". I find it easier to talk to my friends here on the Vine than to my "real" friends, and I appreciate more when one of them makes a compliment. But I know that, at the end of the day, there's something special about the relationships we make in the real world.

I live and work in what most of you would consider third-world conditions, in the interior of Brazil. In many, many ways, I'm completely happy here. My life has purpose, brings fulfilment, and I have good friends. Friends I can rely on. But sometimes I crave something different. Not better, or worse, just different. And that's where Newsvine come in.

Don't know if that makes sense :-)

Cheers, and thanks for passing by and leaving a smile.

  • 4 votes
#6.1 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 9:33 PM EDT
not over it

I find it easier to talk to my friends here on the Vine than to my "real" friends,

I mostly am the same, in person and online. I pretty much say out loud what I am thinking. My best friend that I referred to above says that my internal filter is broken.

I have learned the hard way that very few people ever really want an honest answer to their question. I have been working on my internal filter but I have found it easier to drag my husband and friend around with me so they can take turns kicking me when I start going to far, especially if I have been drinking.

The upside, for me, the people that know me aren't brave enough to ask me silly questions like "Do these jeans make my ass look fat?", anymore.

  • 4 votes
#6.2 - Thu Apr 8, 2010 5:07 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

I have learned the hard way that very few people ever really want an honest answer to their question

How true!

On a similar vein, what really bothers me is people who want to talk, but don't want to listen! They'll ask you something, not to hear your opinion/situation/desires, but simply as a springboard to launch out on another 20 minutes rambling! Drives me crazy :-)

I'm not much used to speaking my mind, though. I prefer to turn on "automatic pilot", and let them ramble away while I put my mind to other uses :-)

I think we would get on well together :-)

Cheers.

  • 4 votes
#6.3 - Fri Apr 9, 2010 12:10 PM EDT
not over it

They'll ask you something, not to hear your opinion/situation/desires, but simply as a springboard to launch out on another 20 minutes rambling! Drives me crazy :-)

True but I have to admit to doing that especially when I have been drinking. (I know, I am a bad girl, sorry)

I am pretty self involved on a good day and worse after having a couple of beers. It gets hard to stay focused on others people's problems, when mine are so much more interesting, to me anyway. :)

That's another arena where the kicking comes in handy. Just kick me and I'll snap out of it......for a few minutes anyway.

  • 4 votes
#6.4 - Fri Apr 9, 2010 2:35 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Ah well, we'll blame the drink :-)

  • 3 votes
#6.5 - Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:00 AM EDT
Reply
Time Lord

I had a 7th grade history teacher...Warner Neudorf, god rest his soul (who was also the football and track coach) tell our class one day..."tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are". He knew that the people we call "friends"...we tend to share more then just phone numbers.

  • 3 votes
Reply#7 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 10:32 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

TL, there's a lot of wisdom in those words :-)

Some people use the word "friends" very loosely, others have various levels of friendship, but there's always some message being broadcast by who we choose (or accept) as friends.

Cheers.

  • 3 votes
#7.1 - Thu Apr 8, 2010 10:22 AM EDT
Time Lord

...yep, the people I call "friends" and their values/morals are a reflection of who I am. I personally, take that seriously. I was explaining the difference between "friends" and "acquaintances" to my 14 y/o son. Most middle-school kids think that if someone knows their name...that's sole criteria for being counted as a "friend". pppsst

  • 2 votes
#7.2 - Thu Apr 8, 2010 12:04 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

Here in Brazil they actually use two different words: "colega" (someone you know at school, or work, or something like that) and "amigo" (friend). "Amigo" is a lot more closer and intimate than "colega".

Cheers.

  • 2 votes
#7.3 - Thu Apr 8, 2010 4:52 PM EDT
Reply
Linda Luke

I was the all out Momma preacher to two sons, I told them if they hang out with drug addicts, they would do drugs, if they hung out with thiefs, they would steal. I had a daughter in my ole age and well she is a straight A honor roll student, don't have to tell you what type of friends she has, they be scholastic.

I'm a bit of a hermit, the friends I have right now go back 20-30 years and have few new ones. There are those that do come into my life that I keep near and dear to me. Paddy Ryan, I like your article!! ;)

  • 4 votes
Reply#8 - Wed Apr 7, 2010 11:25 PM EDT
Paddy Ryan

And I like your comment, Linda :-)

Thanks for your input, with which I agree.

Cheers.

  • 3 votes
#8.1 - Thu Apr 8, 2010 10:24 AM EDT
Reply
Papaharvey

I am oldish (over 70) I have lots of friendly acquaintances. People whom I enjoy for many various reasons, people I play games with and socialise with, people I help when help is called for and possible and people who will do the same for me. Since I lost my wife three years ago come Christmas Eve I have realised that I lost the only true friend I ever had and will ever have. I do voluntary work (Victim Support), care about people and realise that people care about me. There is simply a general richness about people, about what they think and what they do - people are fascinating and fun. But despite having three great offspring and eight terrific and lively grandchildren I am actually alone in my circle. I came to this site because I was searching for that quotation and knew it wasn't any of the quite close biblical ones. I had been to the 70th birthday party of a friend and neighbour where all his friends were gathered together and wanted to express to him how splendid they all were and how they were a credit to him and his wife.

What is the summation? Test it against the ultimate test - death. When I fall off my pearch many people will be sad and say kind things about me and reflect on their own mortality - and then "move on" as they say. You don't move on when you lose a friend.

Papaharvey

  • 3 votes
Reply#9 - Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:31 AM EST
Paddy Ryan

Papa,

Thanks for your input, which I greatly enjoyed. I don't know what else to say at the minute, without sounding trite or melodramatic.

Cheers, Paddy.

  • 3 votes
#9.1 - Mon Dec 6, 2010 9:32 AM EST
oldfogey

Paddy, hope you are well and happy. Glad you finally got around to answering Papaharvey. Sounds like he needs some more friends. Tidings and Blessings to You.

  • 3 votes
#9.2 - Mon Dec 6, 2010 10:20 AM EST
Paddy Ryan

Jerry, I've been worse, and I've been sadder.

You have the habit of surprising me :-)

Cheers.

  • 2 votes
#9.3 - Mon Dec 6, 2010 1:16 PM EST
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